Sophie Thatcher’s references are the ultimate route into the actor’s mind and sensibility. Eraserhead, Wim Wenders, Mission of Burma, Welcome to the Dollhouse and Rosemary’s Baby are all mentioned in this cover conversation – it’s a mix that epitomises her taste for the exposing, the distorted, and the downright disturbed. Through her acting, Thatcher has stayed true to these cornerstones, gravitating towards outsider worlds and characters that provoke and absorb. In A24 horror Heretic as a religious missionary caught in a disturbingly violent game of faith, in Drew Hancock’s stylish debut thriller Companion, and in her recurring Yellowjackets role, which recently returned for a plot-twisting third season. In Yellowjackets co-star Elijah Wood, Thatcher met a kindred spirit – another horror movie fanatic, lo-fi music aficionado, and actor willing to push themselves into the darkest of places.

Elijah Wood: Hi, how’re you?
Sophie Thatcher: I’m good! Where are you right now in the world?

EW: I’m in Red Hook in Upstate New York, it’s two-and-a-half hours north of the city – kind of close to Hudson.
ST: Nice, Hudson is beautiful. Are you shooting something there?

EW: No, I’m on a road trip with my family.
ST: Oh my god, thank you for doing this.

EW: You’re so welcome. Where are you?
ST: I’m in Nicholas Canyon. Are you coming to the Yellowjackets premiere?

EW: Yeah, I’ll be there.
ST: Oh good! Have you seen the episodes yet?

EW: I’ve not seen anything, have you?
ST: I have, it’s really fucking good. Yours and Christina’s [Ricci] stuff is so good, Christina this season breaks my heart. Your dynamic is my favourite part of the show right now.

EW: Oh thanks! I’m excited about this season, in typical Yellowjackets style it amps everything up and the stakes get higher when that seemed impossible from the prior season. This season is really wild and I’m very excited for people to see it. How was the experience for you?
ST: It was a lot. It’s interesting watching it, I’m so critical and it’s interesting because people know me from the show and I feel like my character has really changed from season one. In season one, Natalie [Sophie’s character] is closer to who I am as a person, and I find that my character is becoming more jaded, darker and serious. Season one Natalie was such an outsider and now she’s a leader, it’s just an interesting character arc and I’m really fucking hard on myself watching it because it was the first thing people recognised me from. People who come up to me and talk about Natalie have said, “I am Natalie” and they really see themselves on the screen, so I think that’s a lot of fucking pressure. [laughs] Then having Juliette [Lewis] not be there, I watched it and was like, “There’s something missing.” My friend Lindsey did a relief concert and Juliette played. Do you like Christopher Owens from Girls?

EW: Yeah.
ST: I saw him and I’m seeing him again tonight at The Wiltern.

EW: How was Juliette? Did you see her perform?
ST: She’s fucking insane, she’s like Mick Jagger on stage – it’s crazy to watch. I knew going in that I was going to be mind-blown. You know when she’s dancing in Natural Born Killers? It’s like that times ten. [both laugh] We were talking about doing something together but we make such different music.

EW: I’ve never seen her perform but I’ve seen footage and it does seem like she’s an absolute livewire on stage. It’s pretty incredible.
ST: Right?! I’m trying to make more music and do live stuff.

“I rewatched Audition for the first time in ten years and forgot how much that film had a hold on me.”

EW: How much are you devoting to music? Is live performance something you’re thinking about? It’s one thing to make something in the confines of a studio that feels like a personal extension of your expression, but it’s another thing entirely to perform.
ST: The week after Yellowjackets, I’m recording an album in Asheville at Drop of Sun [Studios], which is great. I feel like they’re really getting recognition because that’s where MJ Lenderman blew up and Moses Sumney records there. I was going to go there earlier but then the hurricane happened and luckily the studio wasn’t affected but it just didn’t feel like the right timing. They’ve come together beautifully in the same way that LA has. I wasn’t expecting to love the producing part of it, fine-tuning everything and adding the tiniest noises to create atmosphere. I’ve never felt so inspired and in control, that part was exciting to me. I’m sure you know Chan Marshall [Cat Power], she’s my fucking idol and she messaged me. I was like, “Oh my fucking god.”

“I’m so obsessed with soundtracks, specifically horror movie soundtracks and how they can elevate a film.”

EW: Chan Marshall messaged you?!
ST: Yeah! She saw Heretic and I have a cover of Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door which sounds exactly like Mazzy Star and she messaged me from that. I don’t want [my music] to sound too singer-songwriter but I think that’s also just being scared of vulnerability and not having noise surrounding it. I think I would bring my friend Adam [McDaniel] and a looper on stage, there’s a guy who would play with Mission of Burma and he would just be there on the side of the stage helping to make it sound experimental and fresh. I’m still navigating but it’s really exciting. I found this artist, do you know Cameron Winter?

EW: No.
ST: Oh my god, listen. It’s so good. It’s kind of Cindy Lee-adjacent in its own weird way. I’m finally collaborating, I’m making a song with the Freak Heat Waves guys who opened for Cindy, so that’s good. I’ve never really collaborated with people before so that’s exciting. I love talking music with you.

EW: It’s so fun. It’s so cool that you’re finding your – self really quickly and opening yourself up to the larger community. I mean, the fact that Chan would message you based on something you’ve done is really amazing.
ST: Her debut album, I’m choking up thinking about it, it’s so fucking good. She’s my idol.

EW: What a special thing though, to be in the process of creating, being so inspired by people and then having the opportunity to meet them and work with them.
ST: I just saw you in the trailer for the new Neon movie, The Monkey. How was that? I swear to god, Neon trailers are superior.

EW: I know, their marketing and branding department is truly extraordinary. It’s Oz Perkins who made Longlegs, which Neon also put out. I’ve known Oz for a while, I’m in the tiniest piece of that movie, I came up just for a day but it was a total blast and I’m a huge fan of his.
ST: He’s a visionary director.

EW: He totally is and, in my opinion, he’s finally getting the recognition he deserves. He has quietly been making these really special singular genre films for a long time and he’s finally blowing up. The Monkey is awesome, I haven’t seen the film but the script is incredible, if you know his work then it is very unlike other films he has made. It’s a very violent horror comedy with a lot of cartoonish bloodshed and it’s really funny.
ST: We’re seeing the blending of genres a lot more.

EW: That’s a perfect segue because isn’t that Companion? It’s also a comedy, right?
ST: Yeah, I think we’re in the best time for horror that we’ve ever been in with companies like Neon and A24. Companion is Warner Brothers, which is funny because there’s so much money in the marketing but it was an indie movie when we shot it. The script blends so many different genres and it’s fun to see that you don’t have to be tied down by genre now and people are exploring. I think Barbarian helped a lot, in the past couple of years, horror is finally being elevated and taken in a different light. It’s also the biggest reason people go to the theatres – when you do a horror movie.

EW: I know, they often say a horror is recession-proof. No matter what the ebb and flow of the film industry is, horror is always successful because people always want to go to a film that is somewhat of an event and scares them or makes them feel something viscerally. It’s also what you want to see with an audience because having reactions from other people is the best way to see those movies. The beautiful thing about horror is it tends to have a relatively successful theatrical release. The era we’re in now is incredible and it feels like the seeds of this started over ten years ago with things like Hereditary and The Witch, movies that elevated the genre and told really interesting stories. To your point, there’s also a willingness among genre fans to see movies that don’t necessarily fit in any specific box, and that’s exciting for us as actors as we get to play within these sandboxes that are a lot more creative and a little weirder and harder to define.
ST: That’s also Yellowjackets, it spans every genre.

EW: Totally, it’s not necessarily an easy thing to define.
ST: It’s exciting.

“Everything [David Lynch] did made me feel less… You find comfort in the darkness, and to find that so early on.”

EW: You’ve been making a lot in this genre space – it’s awesome.
ST: I know! It’s fun because I grew up watching 28 Days Later – I was way too young to watch it. Then I started making zombie movies with my twin for years. I was always making horror movies, it was my thing. I rewatched Audition for the first time in ten years and forgot how much that film had a hold on me, I was just so obsessed with horror movies growing up that it makes so much sense why I’m in this place that I’m in now. But it’s also interesting as an actor when you’re really young, all the offers that I’m getting now are horror-based and I’m sure you can relate to that. It’s a strange spot to be in because obviously I’m very blessed but you want to go against what people expect from you, but then you also want to stick to your gut – it’s confusing.

EW: I think it’s got to be a healthy mixture of pushing against expectations but also trusting your instincts and what feels right.
ST: You’re a good example of that, you’re a character actor and you keep choosing the most unlikely projects, the strangest projects. It’s so admirable. My twin, who knows nothing about movies, is obsessed with you and a couple of years ago she showed me the movie you made with Melanie Lynskey [I Don’t Feel at Home in This World Anymore]. I’m obsessed with it. My boyfriend said Walter is his favourite character in Yellowjackets and I agree. [both laugh]

EW: Aw, thank you! I’m just resonating with what you’re saying too, that thing of finding the balance between being strategic and also following your instincts. At the end of the day, you’re going to be a happier artist if you follow your heart and your gut – it’s never going to lead you astray. It’s certainly how I’ve done it, not overly-analysing expectations and going with what feels right.
ST: What do you think for yourself moving forward, what do you look for in projects?

EW: I don’t think I’m ever thinking about what the next project will be in regard to what kind of character I want to play. The idea of working with a filmmaker who is exciting is what I’m looking for. I’m always looking for a creative vision, a different outlook.
ST: I completely feel you. At this moment, I just want to work with directors who are willing to collaborate because I think I’m in a fun spot right now. I had a taste of it with Companion, I was lucky enough to collaborate with Drew [Hancock] and help with costume, soundtrack, and now I’ve had a taste of that I’m like, “I can’t stop!” For me, it’s about finding someone who’s weird or interesting or maybe something is off-putting about it.

EW: That’s so rad and also rad that you are looking for full collaboration, that’s totally filmmaker-style – wanting to be involved in every part rather than just simply going in and fulfilling your role as an actor. I completely relate to that. I started a company with a partner a little over ten years ago called SpectreVision and we’ve produced a bunch of genre movies that are in many ways uncategorisable or horror-adjacent. We did a movie called Mandy with Nicolas Cage…
ST: Wait, I love Panos [Cosmatos]! I connected Panos and my twin because she makes these fucked up claymations and I’m trying to get her to work with Panos in some way because they’re very like-minded. Mandy fucked me up, it had an amazing soundtrack – I love that movie. He’s doing a vampire movie right now.

EW: He is, have you read the script?
ST: Oh my god, it’s absurd.

EW: I loved it so much.
ST: I made these moodboards of these late 70s gothic punks. Do you know the band Strawberry Switchblade? There was a lot of that on there.

EW: No I don’t.
ST: You’ll like it, it’s very twee. There’s not much crossover between goth and twee in music, but they are the perfect example of that, they have some great hits. After reading [the script], I started sending him a bunch of images like, “This is what it should look like.” [laughs] Not in that way, but costume-wise from someone who grew up kind of goth or close to goth-adjacent. He’s an incredibly exciting filmmaker, that’s so cool you did that.

EW: He’s amazing and totally singular. It sounds like you also want to be a filmmaker, is that something you’ve thought about?
ST: Yes, it’s interesting because my older sister [Emma] was my inspiration for acting. I watched her in [Stephen] Sondheim shows really early on and then she went to NYU – she’s a really talented writer. We tried writing together, I want to incorporate all of my sisters into something, Ellie makes these crazy stop motions and she helped me with the music video I directed.

EW: That’s amazing. Is it just the three of you?
ST: I also have an older brother who is a war journalist, he was in the Republic of Georgia but he’s moving to Turkey. I haven’t seen him in a very fucking long time. He was the one who introduced me to Mission of Burma, Liar, Gang of Four, every band that I’m into now.

EW: Oh my god, that’s amazing. I have an older brother and it was a similar relationship.
ST: What did he show you?

EW: It was The Smiths, Depeche Mode, Nine Inch Nails. My brother was, and is, a huge Prince fan, so I also inherited that. And horror movies, too. By virtue of him renting movies with his friends, the first horror movies I saw were when I was like five or six years old. [both laugh] How old were you when you saw your first horror film?
ST: Well, this was actually by accident, my dad was watching Pan’s Labyrinth and I walked in, and of course it was the hands scene.

EW: Oh my god, amazing.
ST: Very dramatic! Horrifying. [laughs] I was scared for a couple of years. I rewatched it when I was eleven, and then a couple of years later I tried to learn the theme song on piano. I’m so obsessed with soundtracks, specifically horror movie soundtracks and how they can elevate a film. I’m really proud of the Companion soundtrack – I talked about Rosemary’s Baby and then sent the Cannibal Holocaust main theme and they actually used that as a temporary thing before building the soundtrack around that. I was like, “Oh my god, they’re listening. That’s insane!” It brought in this eery lightness against the stark blood and darkness. Even the Audition theme, I learned that on piano, I was so obsessed with that part and how it played against how fucked up the movie is.

“What’s so beautiful about finding your first movie is that you’re making your own decisions and deciding what you like.”

EW: I love that movie so much. Takashi Miike is awesome. Have you seen Ichi the Killer?
ST: Oh my god, yeah!

EW: One of my favourite movies of his is The Happiness of the Katakuris, have you seen it?
ST: I’ve heard of it, Ellie my twin recommended it to me.

EW: It’s a horror musical about a family who run a B&B and they end up murdering the tenants, but it’s also a really fun, happy musical. It’s incredible.
ST: Wow. I love the juxtaposition of the lightness of a soundtrack building that soundscape and feeling… It’s so powerful to me and my favourite part of horror movies. I’m literally pulling up my Letterboxd right now.

EW: I don’t have a Letterboxd – I’m super late to the party.
ST: You don’t? Have you been asked your top four yet?

EW: I have, it’s so difficult to answer.
ST: What would you say right now?

EW: I always say that Harvey is my favourite film of all time. There are probably movies that I love more, but it’s been at the top of my list for a long time.
ST: I’ve actually never seen it.

EW: It’s really great. It started as a play and then they made a film of it. It’s Jimmy Stewart playing a guy whose best friend is a six-foot white rabbit who nobody can see but him. It’s a really beautiful movie with a lot of different reads on what is happening with that particular character and whether or not this imaginary rabbit exists or not. It’s really beautiful, very funny and also profound. Three other films… Night of the Hunter.
ST: Oh my god, that was a movie my brother showed me so early on because it’s his favourite movie of all time. I was so taken aback by it.

EW: It’s extraordinary. The filmmaking is so beautiful, the black and white photography, the performances. The iconic tattoos on his hands. What are some of your favourite movies, because I don’t want to take up all the airspace? [laughs]
ST: Anything [John] Cassavetes, he’s my number one. I’m kind of torn between Opening Night and Woman Under the Influence. I said Betty Blue, which is a hard rewatch but I watched it when I was about fifteen and I hadn’t really been moved by a movie before. Béatrice Dalle’s performance is just so explosive and vulnerable. She’s similar to Juliette in that way – you cannot take your eyes off them. I’m a big Wim Wenders fan. Wings of Desire broke me. If I ever just want to sob, I watch that. It’s gorgeous, so poetic, and every time you watch it you catch something new. Also, Happiness by Todd Solondz. I didn’t realise, but Ashley Lyle and Bart Nickerson’s [Yellowjackets creators] reference for Misty [Christina Ricci’s character] came from Welcome to the Dollhouse. He’s one of my number one filmmakers to work with, I love Todd Solondz so much. And Philip Seymour Hoffman in that film! He feels like a guiding light to some extent. Also again, my brother showed me Boogie Nights way too early on. I was like, “Who is that strange little guy with his hand on his hip?” [laughs] He’s definitely my favourite actor. If you were to choose a favourite actor, I know that’s so fucking hard, but who is the first person to come to mind?

EW: Setting [Seymour Hoffman] aside, because he’s certainly one of my favourites, I’ve always really loved Gary Oldman, and he’s similar to Seymour Hoffman in the sense that Gary Oldman’s entire career is almost impossible to peg down, he’s such a chameleon.
ST: He’s like a full classical character actor.

EW: Totally. I’ve always admired him and actors who continue to morph and change.
ST: As a career goal – I said this early on when I was kind of bullshitting an interview and now I’ve kind of stuck to it [laughs] – I don’t want people to recognise me. There’s something so refreshing about looking and feeling so entirely different in every role. You’re so good at that. That’s the goal, to morph and not be recognised.

EW: And therefore be free, right? Then you can move freely from one thing to the next. As an actor, that’s all you want.
ST: I know, it’s so hard.

EW: It is. That’s a big informer on the decision-making process as I move forward, and I’m sure you feel similarly. Whatever allows you to do what you want, so that you’re not adhering to the estimation of what they’ve imagined of you based on the work that you’ve done.
ST: Absolutely.

EW: A couple of other movies that come to mind, have you seen Festen? It’s the Danish word for ‘celebration’. It was one of the early Dogme 95 films that Lars Von Trier and his compatriots created. Thomas Vinterberg directed it and it’s an extraordinary film about a patriarch’s birthday and a family gathering over that birthday. One of the family members says something at the dinner that sends shockwaves through the group. It’s listed as a comedy – it’s got to be the darkest comedy I’ve ever seen. I love it so much. Then if you’ve never seen Tampopo, that’s another favourite of mine too, it’s a Japanese movie about a ramen shop. Exquisite film.
ST: No, I haven’t. Oh, it’s the actor [Kōji Yakusho] from Wim Wenders’ Perfect Days, did you see it? It’s so simple and so beautiful. How did the David Lynch news feel for you?

EW: I mean, it was awful. It was shocking and upsetting. That kind of artist feels like they’re never going to go away.
ST: That’s what I said! He feels completely immortal, it never crossed my mind. He was my first favourite director. Me and my twin watched Eraserhead and I would always do In Heaven karaoke, [sings] “In Heaven Everything is fine.” There are so many good covers of that song. Eraserhead was the first movie I found by myself which really informed me. Everything [Lynch] did made me feel less… You find comfort in the darkness, and to find that so early on. Of course it’s in horror movies, but specifically within his world, it was the most comforting feeling as a teenager.

EW: It’s amazing that you found that movie on your own. There’s something really specific about the discoveries you make as a teen.
ST: Absolutely.

EW: It’s a part of your searching, your independence. Was that your first David Lynch movie?
ST: It was. It’s funny, I was such an Internet kid and would spend hours on YouTube and Tumblr. It was such a weird and inspiring time being young and knowing that there’s so much. I feel like being a teenager was my most enlightening experience.

EW: That’s interesting because obviously we grew up in different eras and I didn’t have the benefit of the Internet – I mean, a little bit, in the late-90s the Internet was burgeoning. But in terms of there being communities online where everything was available and everything was referenced, it was a little before that. It’s kind of amazing to grow up in a time when you can hop online and it’s all there. What was that like?
ST: It felt like you were fed a lot of opinions because you were able to see comments and there’s so much focus on how things are perceived or how other people perceive it. There’s something to be said about finding music now where you can look at the algorithm – I think that could be damaging. I love to just go in as a virgin, finding a record, not knowing anything about it. But I do find that younger people are going back to that because it’s so the polar opposite. Everything is based on algorithm now and it feels like you can’t choose for yourself. What’s so beautiful about finding your first movie is that you’re making your own decisions and deciding what you like.

EW: The algorithm is funny…
ST: I love it and I hate it! [laughs]

EW: I guess what it doesn’t do is feed you what you don’t know you want, it doesn’t feed you, “Hey, you should try this thing that isn’t at all in reference to anything that we understand you to like.” It doesn’t allow you to get out of your comfort zone. You’re not taking any risks with your tastes. That’s the danger because being challenged through art is really important to our worldview. Which by the way, you can still get by going to like, a record store. [laughs]
ST: Exactly! Be your own person. It’s regurgitating what you put into your phone.

EW: It totally is, but the positive aspect of that is now there are kids in places not connected to large cities and don’t have large communities that are being exposed to music that they otherwise wouldn’t have. And for films too. One of the benefits of the era of streaming is that you can be a kid in a place that doesn’t have an art house cinema and still be exposed to [films] from all over the world.
ST: Absolutely. I’m sure you’ve noticed that lo-fi music has become really popular amongst the younger generation – a lot of lo-fi musicians creating in their bedrooms. People are finding charm in that, there’s less production and it feels intimate and authentic. It’s interesting to see what young kids are gravitating towards and it’s such DIY, lo-fi sounds.

EW: At the end of the day, people want authenticity, and it’s really cool to see that young people are looking for that same thing. I think that trend will always exist. There’s always going to be a pushback, especially if there’s so much artificial shit thrown our way. Pushing against that is the sense of what is real, what is authentic…
ST: It’s making music in your bedroom.

Interview originally published in Heroine 22.

hair ESTHER LANGHAM at ART AND COMMERCE using ORIBE; make-up ROMY SOLEIMANI at ROMY GLOW; hair assistant KAREN ZAMOR